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Post by straighta on Apr 13, 2007 8:30:09 GMT -5
Goooooood Morning -=Of-God=- !!!! I pray that this message finds you well and Blessed! I have come to your wonderful forums for several reasons, i shall start off with my first and foremost reason, as to their is no reason to beat around the bush.
Who I am: My name is David G. I live in OKC, OK and am married to the most b-e-a-utiful women in the world! Since the day that I met here, I was in love. I have been a christian for most of my life (21 years) and have recently been impassioned by our Gracious Lord and savior Jesus Christ to be a part of what I have dubbed Video Game Ministry; it is real, it is powerful, and it is an overlooked ministry by the church. I am an Urban Ministry major at Southern Nazarene University. I am a great listener and even better encourager.
Why I am here: I am nervous. I am curious. I am disturbed. I pray right now that God would guide my fingers and thoughts so that what I type would glorify God's name. THat this message would be recieved with love.
I have heard some very confusing things about some friends of friends and their encounters with OG personell. There are many things I have heard that, for lack of a better word or term, they seem a little odd. There are some groups that are wanting to BoyCott your servers, meaning not to play. And this number is growing. I ask to hear from your leadership, in this public forum please not in a pm, maybe even from Peace, why this is? I mean no disrespect.
I am in understanding that we all have our own beliefs, even amongst the christian clans. We all believe differently, that is our God given right to believe. We all interpret different scriptures differently. I really am scattered brained, but this one thing is.....what makes since to me.
Collosians 3:12-15
Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord Forgave you. And over all these virutes put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity. Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And Be Thankful!
I read in the bible once, Matthew 18:15.
In all these comments, I remain humble before the Lord, so that I will be lifted up in His timing. 1 Peter 5:6-7
God Bless you all,
David G.
-MTC-Straight_A
dgraves@mail.snu.edu
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Post by Peace-=Of-God=- on Apr 13, 2007 11:18:07 GMT -5
Thank you for your inquiry, Brother David. Yes, there is a clan (a former ally, although not a Christian clan) that is boycotting our servers due to a bad situation that developed between our clans. I have attempted to discuss the original issue with their leader, apologizing for where I was wrong on one of the issues, and showing where he was wrong on the other issues. He chose to refuse to acknowledge either the apology or the evidence; instead, he and his clan members have filled many pages of their forum with hateful and vicious slander about me personally and about The -=Of-God=- Clan. As far as I am concerned, there is no reason for me to dignify their malicious slander with a public response. God knows my heart, and it is He to Whom I give account for my actions and attitudes ( Rom. 14:4-13). However, recognizing that I am just a mortal and capable of error in my decisions, I have given a statement to The -=Of-God=- Clan Leadership Council (which is composed of some of the most Godly men and women that I have ever had the pleasure of meeting online) regarding the allegations that their clan has made. The LC has reviewed that statement and found no fault in me, other than the item about which I had already apologized to the other clan's leader prior to that statement. The LC stands 100% behind me, knowing that I have acted in good faith in this matter and recognizing that this latest attack has been orchestrated by the enemy of God because of our stand for God's truth. Just as you said regarding yourself, David, this clan is a ministry ... an outreach of the Gospel in an area of heavy darkness, where Satan's lies and evil ways have permeated the fabric of the culture. Scripture makes it clear that Satan takes an active role in attacking God's work, particularly when it is being done in areas where his grip on the sinners is the strongest -- the devil hates to lose ground -- and he often uses as his unknowing pawns those who once were friends of God's servants (remember, Jesus Himself was betrayed by someone who had spent three years at His side). As long as we keep doing (as our motto says) "His Work Through Our Play", we fully expect these types of attacks to come; in fact, if the world loved us, we would have to examine ourselves to see where it is that we're not following our Master! As Jesus Himself said in John 15:18-25 -- In summary, I have tried to resolve the situation; they have spurned that attempt. The ball clearly lies in their court to accept my apology and address the areas where they were wrong; if they are not willing to do either, then there can be no resolution. Would I prefer that the situation either be resolved, or just go away? Certainly -- no one likes trouble. But that's not the way of the Christian life, as I'm sure you well know, David. And even if this trouble did go away, another would arise to take its place -- because the Christian life is not for the wimpy or the faint-hearted. We're called to be Christian soldiers, not spectators ... and God allows trouble to come into our lives to give us the opportunity to grow stronger, not to defeat us. I'll close with the words of one of my all-time favorite songs, by my favorite Christian recording artist, as they relate to the situation so well, and he says it so much better than I could. 
Bring It On
by Steven Curtis Chapman, as recorded on his 2001 album, Declaration
In His service because of His compelling love, ~ Jeff / Peace-=Of-God=-, Clan Leader |
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Post by Reaper-=Of-God=-(Sam)† on Apr 13, 2007 13:20:49 GMT -5
Hi, Sam here - part or the LC for Of-God. Just wanted to confirm what Jeff just posted and to let you know the LC did indeed review this situation in detail when it happened, and we continue to monitor the situation with our former allies. Jeff did apologize for an element of his actions that he and we felt was wrong and while offering his apology also provided to the GTTP leadership conclusive evidence related to GTTP member violations of our clan rules. And as Jeff says, GTTP leadership chose to ignore both the apology and evidence, instead launching themselves on a very extensive and far reaching smear campaign of the Of-God clan. They can call it what they wish as I have no control over that, however given the full range of evidence - and yes we have been exposed to all of it - smear is the best word I can come up with.
I've been in the clan nearly two years now, and can say that I'm impressed daily by the heart Jeff and the rest of the LC have for God, and for Him to be reflected throughout our clan on a daily basis. This means we extend His love and mercy but we also hold to His precepts and guidelines, and ask others voluntarily playing on our servers and visiting our forums to do the same. When players disagree with this interpretation of what we feel is commanded by God, they are welcome to leave and play elsewhere. When they violate the rules no matter how justified they may feel they are to do so given their own beliefs, then they unfortunately must suffer the consequences.
David, I encourage you to make your own judgment related to the facts of this situation before you decide on any course of action. I know that Jeff and the Of-God clan stands ready to work with you in this assessment as we have nothing to hide and nothing of which we should be ashamed.
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ForChrist-=Of-God=-
Retired Clan Member 
FINAL PROMOTION: was
called Home 12/02/2007
[/b]"Well done, good and
faithful servant; enter
into the joy of your Lord!"
[/center]
Holy is the ?Lord of Hosts!?plg%%530070%%
Posts: 2,923
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Post by ForChrist-=Of-God=- on Apr 13, 2007 13:50:31 GMT -5
I can't add anything to what has already been said other than to agree wholeheartedly. As a member of the leadership council, I support our leader and the LC in it's decision in this matter.
Bro Jeff
a.k.a. [shadow=red,left,300][glow=red,2,300]†_FC_†™[/glow][/shadow]
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Post by straighta on Apr 13, 2007 13:53:36 GMT -5
Indeed, Props to the swift reply! I myself have only played a few times on the OG server, trying to encourage play time on the -MTC- Server. I do not plan on taking a stand on any position as of yet. After all, I do not want to judge a brother, for it is not my place at all. I do question some of the rules/regulations (not statements of faith) but then again, as i mentioned earlier, we all interpret and have our own beliefs. I appreciate you explaining your side, and yes, it is very frustrating when people are out to smear your name. But allways remember to respond with love.
I have heard that communication was very....how shall we say....limited? but then again, I do not know either of the parties(Peace/OG or GTTP). If you would like I would attempt to be a mediator of sorts in all this confusion having no prior relations with either party. But might be something you would rather just let go, blow over, or what not.
Anyways, God bless you brothers, and may he guide you and lead your ministry to the Glorification of His name!
David G
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Post by Reaper-=Of-God=-(Sam)† on Apr 13, 2007 15:49:13 GMT -5
Indeed, I do question some of the rules/regulations (not statements of faith) but then again, as i mentioned earlier, we all interpret and have our own beliefs. Care to indicate which of the rules are troubling to you? |
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Post by Peace-=Of-God=- on Apr 13, 2007 16:26:34 GMT -5
Thank you for your comments, David. And as Reaper suggested, we'd like to hear what you don't like about our rules ... perhaps there's some misunderstanding of the purpose for which they are intended. Unfortunately, the server doesn't give a lot of room for rules, so sometimes the way a rule comes across on the server isn't quite the way that the full version of that rule actually reads (although we do try to keep them as close as possible), or could be misinterpreted to mean something that we're not trying to say -- they make sense to us, since we're used to them ... but perhaps to others, they don't come across as plainly as we think that they do. You can check out the full version of our server rules here in our forum; and after reading that article and its related notes, if you still have questions or problems with our rules, please feel free to discuss them here (or in another thread, if you don't want this one to stray off-topic  ). Thank you! |
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Post by straighta on Apr 13, 2007 21:55:14 GMT -5
I will definitely get back to you on the rules....but back on topic....I would be willing to mediate....if you guys wanted someone too that is "netural" lol w/e that means.
God bless
David
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Post by straighta on Apr 14, 2007 0:07:13 GMT -5
Ok as for the rules that I really don't agree with....it is more of a rule....and at that it is only part of the rule....
1. PROFANITY IS NOT ALLOWED. This includes all forms of actual profanity, "mild" implied profanity ("euphemisms" -- meaning when you don't actually say the swear word, but you say something close enough to it that everyone knows what you really wanted to say), and acronyms of phrases that contain swear words (for instance, abbreviating "oh my ___" as "omg"). Any use of profanity can result in instant removal from the server by an admin or PB-deputized player, without warning; the only warning you need is in the server's name, which reads: "-=Of-God=- Clan: NO PROFANITY!".
(NOTE 1: This also applies to your screenname--if even if AAO allows you to register a name that includes profanity or implied profanity, we will remove and ban you from our servers if you attempt to join it using such a name.)
(NOTE 2: For more information on what a euphemism is, what words are wrong to say, and why it's wrong to say them, check out this topic here.)
I agree with no profanity. It shows a lack of knowledge of the English language, a major disrespect to other players, and I agree with you on it. I do agree with that, I have a very hard time with prohibiting "euphemisms." I have seen this list you use, and frankly....I laughed. I appologize for laughing, but the thought of me saying "cheese" and then being banned/kicked....it just seems, odd.
Ephesians 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
I agree with this verse completely! It is most definite that this is true. What I do not understand is how Cheese is a euphemism for Jesus. That would be like me saying....having balck on your website makes you a satan worshiper. ******NOT SAYING THIS AT ALL******* I am just making a point. Let me also say I am just pulling one of many words from this list that I think.....are just everyday words that really have no connotation/relationship/whatever you wann say with Jesus, God, Christ, etc, etc, etc. These words that were pulled off seem to be given this secret meaning. Cheese to me will allways be tastey, made from milk of a cow usually...and goes great with crackers.
I would love to discuss this further...but I will allow some dialog to come first.
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Post by Peace-=Of-God=- on Apr 14, 2007 2:39:22 GMT -5
I'll admit that this is a point that is often misunderstood. The issue is not the seemingly "neutral" words themselves, but the context and manner in which they are used. Allow me to illustrate this point with an illustration that just came to my mind now (wasn't what I was planning to write when I started this -- I guess the Spirit knew that my original illustration wasn't going to cut the mustard -- thank You!): Picture two guys -- we'll call them "Bo" & "Moe" -- working together building a roof. At exactly the same time, both of their hammers miss the roofing nails slightly and zero in on the thumbnails instead. Instantly, Bo screams out, "Jesus Christ!", while Moe screams out, "Cheez 'n' Crackers!" in the same disgusted manner. Now, what just happened here? Well, to most people, what Moe said would probably be considered "socially acceptable" -- even to those who would frown on Bo's obvious profaning of the Lord's Name. However, we need to remember God's words to Samuel: "People judge by outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart" ( I Sam. 16:7). What does God consider to be more important for us to do -- follow the letter of the law, or follow the spirit of the law? If you need the "long answer" for that, just read Jesus' expository sermon on the Ten Commandments, as found in Matthew 5:17 - 7:39. He makes it perfectly clear that "just doing enough to get by" (following the external letter of the law) isn't really enough ... the important thing is the heart issue, internalizing the spirit of the law and living it out of one's love for God and love for his neighbor. Here's the heart of the issue in the example above, at least as I see it. At the instant the hammers hit the wrong nails , they each had a choice to make: whether to accept the injury as being their own fault, or to lash out in anger and pain at the "unfairness" of their suddenly-sore thumbs -- whether to trust God as the Giver and Sustainer of their lives, or to vent their frustration because of the loss of personal control that this painful situation caused them. Sadly, both failed to trust God and to control their anger, choosing instead to give voice to the anger and the disgust. As far as the heart issue (the important area where the Lord looks) is concerned, there's really no difference between what Bo and Moe said -- although they used different words, they both were expressing the same disgust for the situation in which they found themselves. So then, it's not really the words themselves, but the manner in which they are used, that makes a "neutral" word into "euphemised profanity". And of course, the server chat itself generally doesn't really lend itself to the kind of vocal expressiveness that might indicate different nuances of meaning in the words used; however, the context often gives clues as to the manner in which it was meant. For example, when you see a player get killed, and then the next line in the server console is him saying "Cheez 'n' Crackers" ... it seems pretty obvious that he's saying it out of his disgust over his untimely in-game demise, rather than out of his love for little hard wafers smothered in orangey-yellow ooze. (I just made that color up.  ) Even so, we still don't kick/ban someone from the server for that right away -- that would be rude, because it is unfortunately so common in today's society. Rather, we seek to educate them on good communication by asking them to refrain from doing so in the future. (Sometimes it doesn't come out that way in the way that the warnings are issued ... but it should ... that is something that we do need to address.) A kick is issued only if a euphemism is repeated by that player or another player who saw the warning. In addition, it generally take two kicks (except in the case of extreme violations) before a player is added to our banlist ... and even then, the player needs only to come here and post a public apology for their public offenses, and he can then be removed from the banlist (so long as he proves the sincerity of his apology by refraining from any further violations of the posted server rules).
Wow, I really wasn't intending to write this much when I started this post almost an hour ago ... sorry if it doesn't make much sense (it is after 3:30AM here now, after all  ). But I do hope that this post helps to explain why we have that rule in place as it is. If this post doesn't do that, if it just leaves you with more questions ... well then, the floor's still open for you to ask them. ~ Peace |
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Post by Gardener-=Of-God=- on Apr 14, 2007 10:52:16 GMT -5
At the risk of over-stepping my bounds as a regular member slightly, I would like to add that having known Jeff as my clan leader for more than a year and a half and having kept up with the situation myself quite a bit, I can also (for what it's worth) guarantee you 100% that you don't need to worry about allegations presented against Jeff being genuine. And regarding the communication, I believe it would be fair to say that only public argument between the clans has been limited, not communication per se. I wish (as I suppose we all do) that the whole thing could be simply resolved, but from what I can see, it just isn't possible at this time.  |
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Post by Chef-=Of-God=- on Apr 14, 2007 13:15:28 GMT -5
Brother Dave,
First of all welcome to our forums here. Second, with all humility, I would like to weigh in on this subject of euphemisms. I am not an admin here, I am however an admin for a Halo clan }CoG{, and one of the things that attracted me here was the fact that the rules here are the same. No profanity, etc. In regards to dealing with violators, I dont know of any Christian clans that drop the ban hammer on someone for cussing unless it was a repeat violator who consistently disregards the wishes of the server operators. (ie. comes back after getting kicked, or migrates to other servers, behaving the same way.) Even prior to becoming a member here, I witnessed the clan members graciously reminding people of their policy. Approaching it in the manner: "No cussing please", or "Please watch the euphemisms", or something similar. The only time that I am aware of someone getting banned right away was for cheating, hacking, recruiting(and that was with a warning), or tag theft. As far as in game chat though, the membership has largely been very forgiving and understanding that some people dont read the rules, or the hop in a server, and dont really understand what it is we are requiring. I dont speak for the LC here, but as a fellow Christian, and a brother, and with God as my witness, this I can testify is true.
Scot
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Post by ].[-ELn00b on Apr 14, 2007 16:04:25 GMT -5
My name is James and I am one of the admins in the Get to the Point clan.
FIRST, I do not wish to be disrespectful or offend anyone who reads this.
David, before you go and judge the situation between the ].[ clan and the -=Of-God=- clan, shouldn't you read about both sides of the arguement and not just what Peace has to say? I will not get into it in this post becasue I do not wish to have this post edited or moved like previous post by my clanmates.
The entire topic that started all of this is in our forums (aao-clan.org) it has not been edited in any way to anyone come out looking better then the other.
You are welcome to come to the forums and read everything about what came between these two clans and also about our decision to Boycott the -=Of-God=- servers along with other things that happened in the last month or so.
I also invite All -=Of-God=- members[/B] to come to our forum and post what is on their mind about this without it being censored.
That is all I have to say. I just did not think it was right to have you judge this situation only hearing one side of the story. Hope to see you on our forums
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Post by Dancer-=Of-God=- on Apr 14, 2007 16:25:20 GMT -5
Hey James, We trust our Leadership well enough to voice our opinions for us if needed. I'm only commenting on your 'assumption' that our members are too affraid to voice their 'real' opinions here or even on your forum. If you step back for a while and take an objective look at what's written on your forum about the clan we all so dearly love you might get why we don't reply to every false accusation listed there. Jeff is a leader we're all very proud off and it hurts me probably more then himself to see how you slander his good name. Still I hope in the future we all can get along again, I've seen stranger things happen in the past Marco - |
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Post by straighta on Apr 14, 2007 16:39:21 GMT -5
Hey Marco, I understand where you are coming from. I would also like to point out that I do believe that the leader would respond if possible, but his account and the accounts of most of his fellow clan members were banned, from what I ahve been told.
Also, 2 things.
1. People act in ways that make since to them (Dr. Samples)
2. Halo is doing the same thing you are. To me it seems both parties believe the other is at fault. Both believe the other is making false acusations....and frankly it seems there is so much emotion in this i don't know how it will blow over shortly
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Post by Gardener-=Of-God=- on Apr 14, 2007 17:23:43 GMT -5
I do not want to be disrespectful either, James, and this last part of the thread may require removal, but I believe you and the rest of the Get to the Point clan completely misunderstand the reasons that the membership of -=Of-God=- has not posted on the Get to the Point forums. I can't speak for everyone, but I can for myself and I'm guessing most of the -=Of-God=- members feel similarly. The reason is not that we are unaware of the threads (I've read almost everything in the public forums about it), the reason is not that we ourselves feel guilt in some way, and the reason is most definitely not that we are intimidated by Peace (having been in the clan yourself I feel sure that you already know how preposterous that thought is).
The reason is simply that we do not have a desire to argue about, debate about, converse about, or in any way continue this strife between our clans. Unless I am mistaken, no member (including Peace) has posted a single accusation about the Get to the Point clan in general in any public setting. The whole thing started as private, I believe Peace intended it to stay private, and as far as I am concerned it should still be private. What is the point of publicly debating and arguing about this issue? What could be gained from it? Do you really think a public argument (likely to turn into a flame-fest) would solve our problem? I can't possibly see how it could. I believe the only goal of this clan is to reconcile this issue and/or put it behind us, and that is only going to be accomplished by avoiding continuing argument, and initiating private, direct conversation between members of both clan's leadership when they both have a genuine desire to resolve the issue.
Anything else would simply be born out of a desire to 'prove' who's right. I don't think that would be constructive, or that the -=Of-God=- membership has a desire to do that. As I said, I can't actually speak for everyone, but based on what I know of this clan (and my own feelings), the above is my guess.
-Paul-
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Post by Peace-=Of-God=- on Apr 14, 2007 17:29:48 GMT -5
Hmmm ... while I was previewing this post, I saw that Paul just stole a lot of my thunder while I was typing  ... but I'll post this anyway, as I think that it needs to be said.
I have already stated my reasons why I personally will not respond to what that has been posted about me ... namely, that there has been nothing posted that is worth dignifying with a response, and that there has been no response given to my apology or my evidence. Since they have chosen not to accept the apology or to hear the evidence, then we really don't have anything to say at this point, and it's better for all concerned right now for the two clans to go their separate ways -- live and let live. That's the approach that I personally have taken to this matter. And that's the approach that I will continue to take for the time being, until I see evidence that they want to talk and resolve the issues between us (which is what I was trying to do when the whole mess started) rather than just spout off and badmouth us on their forum and at AAOTracker. James, I appreciate your point ... but the threads in your forum do not provide "both sides of the arguement" as you claim. They are one-sided vindictive rants against everything that I have done and everything that I stand for, with almost no sense of balance, decency, or unbiased opinion -- and those on the outside (such as Marcus) who have attempted to post unbiased opinions have been shouted down by even more lengthy angry posts from ].[ members and staff. I have never told any of our members that they shouldn't go and post in your forum. Perhaps the reason that none of them has done so is not out of fear, but out of love. Would you want to spend time hanging out in a place where someone that you admire and respect and love is thoroughly trashed by everyone who posts? That would be comparable to a Republican going into some Democrat's forum and posting good things about President Bush in a thread full of trash-talk about the president -- you're not going to change anyone's mind by posting the truth about the person being trashed in that forum, so why bother? The bottom line in this is what Marco mentioned -- once the dust has settled down and the insults stop flying, then it's a lot easier to sort things out -- as the saying goes ... "mud comes off easiest after it has dried". For those who don't know this, Marco says that from personal experience from dealing with me during the -McC. split last summer. That was a far uglier spat than this was ... but through the way that he and Jamie and I worked together to resolve it, -=Of-God=- and -McC. became strong allies, and when -McC. eventually closed its doors, many of its members returned to their home here in our clan. I believe that this situation can be resolved, and perhaps will be resolved ... but as Paul said, resolution and reconciliation can't happen out of a desire for either clan to prove themselves right and the other wrong. As long as there is the kind of hatred and animosity toward -=Of-God=- as shown by ].[ throughout those threads in their forum and at AAOTracker, resolution will be a long time in coming  -- but by God's grace, I do believe it is still possible. ~ Peace |
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Post by ].[-ELn00b on Apr 14, 2007 18:19:23 GMT -5
agian no disrespect
i did not say that our forums had both sides of the argument i said that it had everything that was posted here before it was deleted or moved or whatever.
You said your side without showing what had happened here. (I find that it is hard to make a decision without educating myself about a whatever i am deciding). So i thought that it would be only fair to show whoever wanted to know what had happened so that anyone who wanted to know would be educated and make their own decision. sry if that didnt sound correct.
bottom line you presented your side to david and I presented ours with what happened
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Gar
Retired Clan Member
RETIRED FROM AA
as Gar-=Of-God=-
plg%%639612%%
Posts: 134
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Post by Gar on Apr 14, 2007 20:01:51 GMT -5
I read the threads on the ].[ server that relate to this topic. I have also read the posts that are posted in the -=Of-God=- clan server that relate to this topic.
In reading the original discussion that occurred between the two ].[ clan mates, I personally did not see any thing wrong there, and felt that Jeff's response could have been handled differently. Granted, our clan rules were broken, and Jeff was attempting to address this, but I feel he did not address it in a spirit of love. So he is not perfect, no one is. Funny how when you are a Christian leader, those you care most about are the first to kick you when you are down.
I have also read that my clans leadership council also felt that Jeff's response was inappropriate. Then I read that Jeff himself has apologized. Then I read that the leader of the ].[ clan is waiting for an apology. I also read several threads on his forum that expressed some perdy strong feelings toward Jeff. Now it seems clear to me that both leaders, of both clans, need to meet and work this out as gentlemen, because if what I have read is a true account of what has been said, both leaders are failing to act as gentlemen ought.
I will be praying for both leaders to be open to this, and that a peaceful outcome will prevail. For with God, nothing shall be impossible.
Sincerely,
Gar
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Post by Peace-=Of-God=- on Apr 14, 2007 20:03:25 GMT -5
... sry if that didnt sound correct. ... Apology accepted, no prob ... I understand that words are often misperceived in a forum setting, where vocal inflections don't help flesh out the meaning of the words used -- sorry for the misunderstanding there. By the way, there really was no need to post your comment to David ... he had obviously already read your forum's side of the story (based on his first post here), and that's why he came here asking about our side of the story. I have also read that my clans leadership council also felt that Jeff's response was inappropriate. Then I read that Jeff himself has apologized. Then I read that the leader of the ].[ clan is waiting for an apology. I also read several threads on his forum that expressed some perdy strong feelings toward Jeff. Now it seems clear to me that both leaders, of both clans, need to meet and work this out as gentlemen, because if what I have read is a true account of what has been said, both leaders are failing to act as gentlemen ought. As I said, I have apologized for where I was wrong, although the apology was has spurned; I am also willing to talk it out with TopGun, but I haven't seen any willingness to talk with me about it coming from him -- all he seems to want to do in what he posts is cut me down. As with the tango, it also takes two to dialogue. EDIT, 04/14/07 2125EDT: I have just read TopGun's latest diatribe on the matter, and he has exhibited quite emphatically that he does not want this matter to be resolved. And so I repeat what I said above: "it's better for all concerned right now for the two clans to go their separate ways -- live and let live. That's the approach that I personally have taken to this matter. And that's the approach that I will continue to take for the time being, until I see evidence that they want to talk and resolve the issues between us." Since that time for that has not yet come, this thread will be closed ... there is no need for further discussion of this matter here. I ask that you all respect ].['s wishes on this matter and not post any further threads about it in our forum, until such time as TopGun does contact me directly to indicate his willingness to discuss this together between the two of us on a neutral ground. If he ever does so, I'll update this thread as necessary. Until then, the matter is closed. Thank you. |
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Thanx Andrew 
). Thank you! 
-- but by God's grace, I do believe it is still possible. 
